There is no good guy in this election, Keef. The public defence of torture may have stopped(*), but Guantanamo continues the practise, we’ve added indefinite detention without trial, assassination of US citizens abroad by hellfire missile in populated areas, violent oppression of protest at home, continued attempts to lock down the free internet under corporate control, amplification of the insane prohibition of cannabis, and the declaration that anyone caught blowing the whistle on federal corruption is an enemy of the state. Obama may be the lesser of two evils, but it’s a damned fine distinction.
(* Ask the unsleeping shade of Bradley Manning how he feels about that one.)
I suspect 9/11 would have occurred if Gore had won, I am unaware of any significant differences between how the Clinton administration or the Bush administration worked with the Intelligence community pre-9/11.
9/11 might have happened if Gore had won out…but Richard A. Clarke said he tried for months to get appointments with Condoleeza Rice and other high-ups in the Bush administration to tell them something big was brewing. They blew him off because they felt that “Terrorism? Oh, that’s a Clinton thing….” The big issues in the early Bush administration, as I remember, were “We gotta build an antimissile system so North Korea won’t nuke us” and “We’ve gotta divert more money to church schools.”
The whole business of “I don’t want to vote because there are no good guys in this election” is how German moderates lost out to the fanatics in the 1930s (I’m trying to avoid running afould of Godwin’s Law). In the late 1940s, lackluster voting in South Africa resulting in the Afrikaans voters overwhelming the British-origin voters, and putting the country under 45 years of hard-core Apartheid. I suspect offhand that the idea that “Oh well, it doesn’t make any difference” could be the thinking that led to the Supreme Court doing the Plessy vs. Ferguson thing that legalized sgregation in the first place.
“Violent oppression of dissent” is a local matter by cities and states that need to be held accountabel….organize, nag and pester people, and vote! Torture? If President Obama had enough Congressional support, he could have moved the prisoners from Guantanamo to, say, Leavenworth and put them under professional management of the Department of Justice, instead of under the whims of vengeful soldiers.
@David – probability arguments are always the weakest, granted – but after Clinton taking an active interest in maintaining a close watch (and previous actions) against Al Quada, and the utter lack of any action on available intel by the Bush administration, I would say it’s more probable Gore would have maintained more diligence than was shown by Bush.
Now, would that have stopped the event? Who knows. But the odds would have been a hell of a lot better with Gore, I’m pretty certain of that.
Every four years there’s a fresh crop of college freshmen (or 4), who want to see themselves as outsiders in the process. Bush was elected in 2000 because of the numbers of people who voted Nader. The problem then was that he held a fund-raiser in a buddhist monastary leading to the whole “hey man, both parties are the exact same thing, man”. (because God forbid Buddhists have any influence in our gov’t. We’ll take oil executives instead).
Sir, it’s borderline unforgiveable that you compare George W. Bush to President Obama. They are nothing alike. George plunged this country recklessly into disaster – knowingly! – and Obama’s message of “we can work together to save this” has been spit on by the Republican party who are more interested in power than salvaging this nation. I know you’re a fan of Obama, so I give you some slack for that. But comparing these two presidencies is like comparing Saddam Hussain to Abraham Lincoln. The eight (8) “dubya years” were horror if you weren’t white and rich. Obama has taken STRIDES – real strides – to make our country work again. He has been forced to compromise, yes. That is too bad. But while fighting congress and those who hope to unseat him, he managed to accomplish a healthcare bill. It’s like a man fighting with one arm behind his back.
It makes me sick to my stomach to think of a return to those Republican years. I don’t know why Obama wants a second term. If I were him, I’d be thinking, ‘fuck this country and all these people trying to pull me down.’ But if we’re blessed with him WANTING this job for another four years, by god, he deserves it after all he’s done.
The unsleeping shade of Bradley Manning is an unsleeping shade under either regime. Four-year-old Afghans and Pakistanis will die under either regime. Warrantless wiretapping will continue under either regime.
The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our president but in ourselves.
ON POINT!!! Keef, you once again, summarize in a few panels what folks voting away from the President are avoiding. It takes time to fix things this longstanding and some are just too impatient to realize that. Thank you, my friend, and you continue to prove why you were on the Quick Draw panel with Sergio and Scott!!!
Canadian kid, but have sent this to all my ‘Merican friends, not that they weren’t already voting this way but to share with anyone they know who needs the reminder, which I think is the intent of the strip. Oh, Keith congratulations on the new kid, too. Good luck.
But Mr. Romney is not only a fake, he’s an implausible fake, like those cheap knock-off nick-knacks you can find at the Dollar Store. Obama is sometimes disingenuous, but Romney is nothing but artificial food coloring, high fructose corn syrup, and ingredients with long chemical names that you can’t pronounce. Obama has made some highly unethical choices, such as expanding warrantless wiretapping, expanding the drone war, and allowing the execution of U.S. citizens abroad by executive fiat. But Romney seems to be one huge pile of ethical crap – he lies, he cheats, he holds a large percentage of the American people in contempt, and he panders to bigots and the ultrarich.
He doesn’t even qualify as a fast-food candidate – he’s more the sort of thing that you pick out of a dumpster when you are desperate.
My issue with our current president is that he kills kids with drones on the daily, and is bent on codifying his right to do so into law. But you’re right, we’ve only given him 4 years, maybe he’ll stop it at some point.
Kneb! You once more raise the red herring of Gore losing because of Nader. It’s just not so. Gore lost due to a concerted GOP effort to hijack the Florida vote (which it did), because the GOP was successful in stopping the Florida vote recount (which would have given Fla to Gore) and putting the decision into the hands of the GOP-heavy Supreme Court. Further, Gore lost because he failed to mobilize a huge number of non-voting registered voters who might have won him victories in other states he lost to Bush. Last, and perhaps most critically, Gore lost because he went belly-up and failed to fight for the Fla recount and to fight against the SCOTUS coup.
I wish people would look at facts rather than repeat memes.
Speaking of which… the only votes in the upcoming elections that will have any significance are those in the ‘swing states’ since the overwhelming majorities in the other states have already determined to whom their electoral votes will go (Maine & Nebraska excepted). Thus, casting an Obama vote in a “Red” state will accomplish nothing toward electing Obama but will, if Obama wins, be counted as an endorsement of his policies by the Dim’s Party Machine. Whereas as vote for Rocky Anderson or Jill Stein would count as an endorsement of their policies and might well be noted by the Dim Party Machine and could affect its policy choices. Similarly, a strong showing by a 3rd party, regardless of who wins the current auction, could encourage people to support 3rd parties in upcoming elections and help to establish a true democratic selection process.
grizzy that is good point. Or should be a good point. Mit would use drones too though. Drones in some ways make too much sense not to use. “hurt the enimey without risk to your own people. That’s logical as far as it goes but I wish we had fewer eniemes to begin with.
Screw “Godwin’s Law”. Humans have some very ugly propensities towards in-humaneness. And the world needs to remember Nazi atrocities as well as those committed by other nations against innocent people in all of human history. So keep an eye out for creeping fascism always people and don’t hesitate to bring it up in intelligent conversation.
You said it, pal!
There is no good guy in this election, Keef. The public defence of torture may have stopped(*), but Guantanamo continues the practise, we’ve added indefinite detention without trial, assassination of US citizens abroad by hellfire missile in populated areas, violent oppression of protest at home, continued attempts to lock down the free internet under corporate control, amplification of the insane prohibition of cannabis, and the declaration that anyone caught blowing the whistle on federal corruption is an enemy of the state. Obama may be the lesser of two evils, but it’s a damned fine distinction.
(* Ask the unsleeping shade of Bradley Manning how he feels about that one.)
@ Marc There is certainly a preferable choice. Lumping them together is how we ended up with Gee Dubya for 8 years.
I agree with Keef – there is a preferable choice and a REALLY REALLY BAD choice. And PLEASE – if you’re in Massachusetts, vote for Warren!!!
I suspect 9/11 would have occurred if Gore had won, I am unaware of any significant differences between how the Clinton administration or the Bush administration worked with the Intelligence community pre-9/11.
The rest of the comic is Spot on.
9/11 might have happened if Gore had won out…but Richard A. Clarke said he tried for months to get appointments with Condoleeza Rice and other high-ups in the Bush administration to tell them something big was brewing. They blew him off because they felt that “Terrorism? Oh, that’s a Clinton thing….” The big issues in the early Bush administration, as I remember, were “We gotta build an antimissile system so North Korea won’t nuke us” and “We’ve gotta divert more money to church schools.”
The whole business of “I don’t want to vote because there are no good guys in this election” is how German moderates lost out to the fanatics in the 1930s (I’m trying to avoid running afould of Godwin’s Law). In the late 1940s, lackluster voting in South Africa resulting in the Afrikaans voters overwhelming the British-origin voters, and putting the country under 45 years of hard-core Apartheid. I suspect offhand that the idea that “Oh well, it doesn’t make any difference” could be the thinking that led to the Supreme Court doing the Plessy vs. Ferguson thing that legalized sgregation in the first place.
“Violent oppression of dissent” is a local matter by cities and states that need to be held accountabel….organize, nag and pester people, and vote! Torture? If President Obama had enough Congressional support, he could have moved the prisoners from Guantanamo to, say, Leavenworth and put them under professional management of the Department of Justice, instead of under the whims of vengeful soldiers.
Hey, these things matter!
@David – probability arguments are always the weakest, granted – but after Clinton taking an active interest in maintaining a close watch (and previous actions) against Al Quada, and the utter lack of any action on available intel by the Bush administration, I would say it’s more probable Gore would have maintained more diligence than was shown by Bush.
Now, would that have stopped the event? Who knows. But the odds would have been a hell of a lot better with Gore, I’m pretty certain of that.
I still don’t know how Bush got elected in 2004 with the popular vote.
Every four years there’s a fresh crop of college freshmen (or 4), who want to see themselves as outsiders in the process. Bush was elected in 2000 because of the numbers of people who voted Nader. The problem then was that he held a fund-raiser in a buddhist monastary leading to the whole “hey man, both parties are the exact same thing, man”. (because God forbid Buddhists have any influence in our gov’t. We’ll take oil executives instead).
I’m not sure that a Gore presidency would have prevented 9/11 — but I’d bet good money that the reaction to it would have been waaaaay different.
Sir, it’s borderline unforgiveable that you compare George W. Bush to President Obama. They are nothing alike. George plunged this country recklessly into disaster – knowingly! – and Obama’s message of “we can work together to save this” has been spit on by the Republican party who are more interested in power than salvaging this nation. I know you’re a fan of Obama, so I give you some slack for that. But comparing these two presidencies is like comparing Saddam Hussain to Abraham Lincoln. The eight (8) “dubya years” were horror if you weren’t white and rich. Obama has taken STRIDES – real strides – to make our country work again. He has been forced to compromise, yes. That is too bad. But while fighting congress and those who hope to unseat him, he managed to accomplish a healthcare bill. It’s like a man fighting with one arm behind his back.
It makes me sick to my stomach to think of a return to those Republican years. I don’t know why Obama wants a second term. If I were him, I’d be thinking, ‘fuck this country and all these people trying to pull me down.’ But if we’re blessed with him WANTING this job for another four years, by god, he deserves it after all he’s done.
Edmond
The unsleeping shade of Bradley Manning is an unsleeping shade under either regime. Four-year-old Afghans and Pakistanis will die under either regime. Warrantless wiretapping will continue under either regime.
The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our president but in ourselves.
You all scare me. I read this stuff and I can see why this country is the way it is. Wow.
ON POINT!!! Keef, you once again, summarize in a few panels what folks voting away from the President are avoiding. It takes time to fix things this longstanding and some are just too impatient to realize that. Thank you, my friend, and you continue to prove why you were on the Quick Draw panel with Sergio and Scott!!!
@Dom – then go back to the warm echo-chamber embrace of Fox News and tune out reality.
Canadian kid, but have sent this to all my ‘Merican friends, not that they weren’t already voting this way but to share with anyone they know who needs the reminder, which I think is the intent of the strip. Oh, Keith congratulations on the new kid, too. Good luck.
I don’t like Barack Obama very much.
But Mr. Romney is not only a fake, he’s an implausible fake, like those cheap knock-off nick-knacks you can find at the Dollar Store. Obama is sometimes disingenuous, but Romney is nothing but artificial food coloring, high fructose corn syrup, and ingredients with long chemical names that you can’t pronounce. Obama has made some highly unethical choices, such as expanding warrantless wiretapping, expanding the drone war, and allowing the execution of U.S. citizens abroad by executive fiat. But Romney seems to be one huge pile of ethical crap – he lies, he cheats, he holds a large percentage of the American people in contempt, and he panders to bigots and the ultrarich.
He doesn’t even qualify as a fast-food candidate – he’s more the sort of thing that you pick out of a dumpster when you are desperate.
My issue with our current president is that he kills kids with drones on the daily, and is bent on codifying his right to do so into law. But you’re right, we’ve only given him 4 years, maybe he’ll stop it at some point.
Kneb! You once more raise the red herring of Gore losing because of Nader. It’s just not so. Gore lost due to a concerted GOP effort to hijack the Florida vote (which it did), because the GOP was successful in stopping the Florida vote recount (which would have given Fla to Gore) and putting the decision into the hands of the GOP-heavy Supreme Court. Further, Gore lost because he failed to mobilize a huge number of non-voting registered voters who might have won him victories in other states he lost to Bush. Last, and perhaps most critically, Gore lost because he went belly-up and failed to fight for the Fla recount and to fight against the SCOTUS coup.
I wish people would look at facts rather than repeat memes.
Speaking of which… the only votes in the upcoming elections that will have any significance are those in the ‘swing states’ since the overwhelming majorities in the other states have already determined to whom their electoral votes will go (Maine & Nebraska excepted). Thus, casting an Obama vote in a “Red” state will accomplish nothing toward electing Obama but will, if Obama wins, be counted as an endorsement of his policies by the Dim’s Party Machine. Whereas as vote for Rocky Anderson or Jill Stein would count as an endorsement of their policies and might well be noted by the Dim Party Machine and could affect its policy choices. Similarly, a strong showing by a 3rd party, regardless of who wins the current auction, could encourage people to support 3rd parties in upcoming elections and help to establish a true democratic selection process.
grizzy that is good point. Or should be a good point. Mit would use drones too though. Drones in some ways make too much sense not to use. “hurt the enimey without risk to your own people. That’s logical as far as it goes but I wish we had fewer eniemes to begin with.
Forgive my typing I only have one good finger.
Congrats Keef. Looks like you get your wish. FOUR MORE YEARS!
Screw “Godwin’s Law”. Humans have some very ugly propensities towards in-humaneness. And the world needs to remember Nazi atrocities as well as those committed by other nations against innocent people in all of human history. So keep an eye out for creeping fascism always people and don’t hesitate to bring it up in intelligent conversation.